I wonder how much of this is the beer industry eating its own seedcorn by focusing more and more on super bitter IPAs that beer snobs love at the expense of more middle of the road palatable beers. The long term consequence of that plus beer snobbery looking down on light beers is that younger drinkers with sweeter palates just don't drink beer at all because the beer that is socially acceptable is too bitter for them and the beers they'd like get mocked.

So instead, they just drink White Claw.

I really despise this about the American beer industry. Your typical tap list these days is 8 IPAs, 1-2 dIPAs, 4 sours, something that contains coffee, some other weird shit (cucumber göse e.g.), and like one normal everyday lager or pilsener that isn't making some sort of personality statement and pairs well with food. Worse, this appears to be catching on among trendier bars in Europe, even in places like Munich and Vienna that have had spectacular beer for centuries and should know better.

They're there because they sell, and they sell because people like them. IMO one pilsner or lager is enough; what's the point of having a whole bar full of different beers that all pretty much taste the same? They certainly don't justify the premium pricing that these bars often charge.

Germans think their own beer is the best in the world. To the rest of us, it is reliable but boring. It's not just an American thing, Scandinavia and the UK also have a much greater variety of styles and tastes. I think all that's happening in Munich and Vienna is people are getting more exposure to this variety and are realising they like it.

As an American, I find German lagers to be just as varied and interesting as American IPAs. I didn't realize this until I moved near a pub with multiple rotating taps of German lagers.

Later, I went to Oktoberfest, and tried multiple fresh lagers a day for four days, which only convinced me further.

I am convinced, in general, that we don't notice subtle variations within styles of (beer, wine, music, etc) until we are repeatedly presented with multiple options within thay style. Of course it'll seem like all lagers taste the same if you only have one good lager to try at a time.

I think the trend is starting to turn.

I visit the Great American Beer Festival nearly every year, and there was definitely a period where everyone was all-in on relatively extreme beers: ipas, sours, bourbon-barrel aged stouts. Last year, I saw a refreshing trend towards pilsners, lighter lagers, and ambers. I feel like GABF is a bit of a bellweather for these things - west coast craft beer bars will probably take a few years to catch up, but I think we're headed in the right direction.

We need more Porters and Stouts! You’re lucky if you can even order a can of Guinness most places.

San Francisco is in desperate need of this. The only dark beer I typically see at restaurants here is Old Rasputin.

> Your typical tap list these days is 8 IPAs, 1-2 dIPAs, 4 sours, something that contains coffee, some other weird shit...

Yup. I live close to a bunch of breweries in Seattle. The taplists of the two nearest are:

Stoup:

    // IPAs:
    Mosaic Pale Ale
    Citra IPA
    Chur to Twelve IPA
    Rainbow Bubbles IPA
    Nothing Crazy IPA
    Simcoe Studies IPA
    Stoup Dog IPA
    Sir Dank A Lot IPA
    Space Garden IPA
    Paraderade IPA
    Easy A IPA

    // Everything else:
    German Style Pilsner
    NW Red
    Imperial Porter
    Cervecita Mexican Lager
    Bavarian Hefeweizen
    What a Tart Raspberry Sour

Bale Breaker:

    // IPAs:
    Field 41 Pale Ale
    Topcutter IPA
    Bottomcutter IIPA
    Daybreak Pale Ale
    Hazy L IPA
    Frenz IPA: Sierra Nevada
    Long White Clouds IPA
    Evenfall Hazy IPA
    Bubba's Brew IPA
    Bale Breaker Why the Ek-Not IPA
    Bale Breaker Tropical Penguin

    // Everything else:
    Bale Breaker Pilsner PNW Pilsner
    Dormancy Stout - Coffee
    Raging Ditch Dry-Hopped Blonde Blonde Ale
    Bale Breaker Pasketti Sauce Pilsner - Italian
    YOXI Lime Agave Ranch Water Hard Seltzer

And note that even the "everything else" category can't escape the "hop the fuck out of everything" trend. Stoup's pilsner is described as "spicy hop aroma and refreshingly dry, hop-forward finish". The Red "provides a distinctly Northwest hop character".

I get it, Cascadia grows a lot of hops. But some of us just want to taste beer and not win some macho contest to see who can choke down the most IBUs per fluid ounce.

The modern ipa trend is not to have a lot of IBUs, i wouldnt be surprised if the 'everything else' beers were higher ibu. Particularly the porters.

The modern ipas will have a ton of hops added on the cold side of the brewing process which adds your aromatics and flavors, but not bitterness.

Pils, Weizen, Helles would else could one need?

Heh, I wish there were four sours at most bars; that's what I usually find most interesting and tasty (I also enjoy porters/stouts, but rarely see much of those these days). Most bars I see don't even have sours, and if they do, it's usually only one or two, at most.

I was never the biggest beer drinker, but the lack of choice (and flood of crappy IPAs over the past couple decades) has only pushed me farther toward cocktails and wine.

You can also get the Makku Makgeolli from supermarkets now and it's quite sweet. And I also saw some other sweeter beers. I'm not a big megahops fan, so being able to have alternatives to IPAs is nice.

That's how they lost me for sure. I can go to a local bar or microbrewery and see a huge beer on tap selection, but they're all bitter artsy stuff. It's nothing like 20 years ago when there was actually a pretty broad range of flavors on the menu. Reminds me of the old Ford quote "you can have any color you like as long as it's black".

I’m an IPA fan and if I wasn’t drinking dirt cheap beer to get wasted in college I’d opt for an IPA.

But sometime in the early to mid 2010s, IPAs became so strong as to become basically undrinkable.

But this trend of IPAs didn’t just turn me off the IPAs. They turned me off beer completely.

Seltzers are also basically no empty calories. I feel like millennials (like me) and gen Z are increasingly aware of this, we don't care about the alcohol, but we do care about drinking liquid sugar or liquid bread.

And seltzers are great cause many are naturally sweetened, no artificial sweeteners either, whether they're bad or not is still up for debate I suppose.